Public invited to comment on draft plan until Aug. 15
By Zachary Matson
After years of back-and-forth on the future of a historic lodge in the northern Adirondacks, New York’s Department of Environmental Conservation is proposing to remove it. The decision to move forward on Debar Pond Lodge, according to the DEC, comes after efforts “to preserve the structure failed to garner a viable option.”
The agency’s plan outlines a larger environmental impact statement and revisions to an existing draft unit management plan detailing management actions for the 88,300-acre Debar Mountain Complex. The DEC is accepting public comments on the plan until Aug. 15.
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The fight to save Debar Lodge
The draft scope indicates DEC will propose actions to remove the main lodge, built in 1939, and its seven outbuildings and restore the site to a natural condition. DEC also plans to improve trails, accessibility and historical interpretation at the site.
Preservationists for years have sought ways to maintain Debar Lodge as a legacy of Adirondack architectural history, including proposals to reclassify the lodge site or protect it through a constitutional amendment. Those efforts have not been successful to date. As the site is classified as wild forest, the structures are considered non-conforming under the Adirondack Park State Land Master Plan.
“Over the years, DEC has considered multiple proposals that could have allowed for preservation of the Debar Pond Lodge Site, but these proposals would not comply with legal requirements,” according to the scoping document.
The scoping document acknowledges the loss of historic resources by removing the lodge, which in 2014 was listed in the National Register of Historic Places. The state proposes mitigating those downsides by documenting the sites, salvaging parts of the structure of use elsewhere and developing historical signage at the site.
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Moving ahead with a plan
Advancing a unit management plan for the Debar Mountain Complex, though, would enable state officials to improve recreational access and resources on the property. The planning documents notes that DEC “lacks the resources to properly maintain the structures and does not have an operational need for the buildings.”
The scoping includes some alternative approaches to consider as part of the environmental impact review, including taking no action, stabilizing and mothballing the lodge and rehabbing or restoring the site to its historic state. But the draft scope indicates removal as the agency’s “preferred” option.
“After considering many alternatives, absent a constitutional amendment the DEC must comply with existing law and there is no mechanism whereby Debar Lodge can remain,” according to the plan.
I think it’s pretty sad to tear down this structure…what’s wrong with people..for god sake it’s a beautiful place historically..Really DEC……
In short, DEC will demolish the site, leave it bare and sell it for a quick money grab.
This is the people of New York successfully preventing our beautiful property from being transferred to private investment interests in exchange for a gravel pit.
New york state are the biggest thiefs and robbers aroumd New york at its best!! I love new yorķ
They aren’t tearing down the pond and mountains. They’re removing an eye sore (and apparently an insurmountable distraction) from the pond’s shore.
This needs to be saved. John Hendrickson.
was spot on..the state is not a good steward of any property….
Take the glass out of the windows and let nature rewild it instead of trucks, dozers, and backhoes. America’s safety laws suck when it comes to preservation of history.
Turn into a camp for underprivileged children , historic sites should never be torn down!!!! Once they are gone they are gone ! But ny loves to do this !! When I travel to other states they preserve their historic sites
Underprivileged children can go there right now to picnic, swim, fish and paddle. They could also camp if they were to follow the ADK primitive camping rules. Please understand, despite the hysterical reactions, this was an attempt to remove access from the rightful owners (underprivileged children and the rest of the NYS population) to the most pristine, beautiful and ACCESSIBLE primitive area in Northern Franklin County, handing it over to special interests in exchange for a gravel pit. The “historic buildings” aren’t. They aren’t old or interesting or significant — but they are in the way. If anything is remarkable about them, it is precisely how unremarkable they are.
The public needs MORE wild places, not fewer. Turning this 1940s monstrosity into a private event center is not in the public interest. Re-wilding Debar pond is in the public interest.
This is so typical in good ol’ NY, everything is done the wrong way, the reverse of normal…
How sad! Why is it not made into a visitor center? Interpretation and forestry education, history from geological beginnings to today’s land preservation and to add, so many hikers need educating about hiking safety, as well as, campers following rules and being considerate of others, not forgetting the needless destruction of public buildings and trees/vegetation.
Because having the buildings benefit the public or the afirondack park has never once been on the table. Those buildings, which are just a rich guy’s house not very old, architecturally interesting or impressive on the shores of by the far the best paddling, hiking, fishing, naturally scenic public Adirondack property in northern ADK is far too great a temptation for those seeking to scam their way into private ownership of public lands. If this lodge actually gets razed it will represent a major win for the people of New York.
Sounds like you’ve never visited this site…if you would go and sit in the front yard for awhile you will witness beauty and feel the peace of this wonderful place. The perfectly constucted cedar log home is in pristine condition and just belongs there forever!
Camp Santoni survived because the APA reclassified from wild forest to historic area. A 32.5-acre area, encompassing the three building complexes (including the Main Camp complex, Gate Lodge complex, and farm complex) and the five-mile road connecting them, is classified as “Historic”.
The surrounding lands within the Santanoni Preserve remain classified as “Wild Forest” within the Forest Preserve. While classified as Historic, the management plan for Camp Santanoni dictates that it will continue to be managed according to the guidelines for areas classified as “Wild Forest,” with specific exceptions for the historic area’s restoration and interpretation activities. If the state wanted to the same thing could happen to Debar lodge.
This is a travesty. Ii have worked we’re over 15 years trying to save debar pond lodge. This includes working with AARCH. Steve Engelhart, and Erin Tobin, Billy Jones, Dan Steck, the Adirondack veterans group that attempted to purchase the property for a retreat for veterans to name a few. I have also sign petition started petitions made comments on every article. , reached out DEC Raybrook. And used a social media to attempt to get more people to contact those in power to try to save this beautiful Lodge. Erin Tobin ran surveys for people to comment on the lodge, and whether it should be torn down, and the majority of people felt it should be saved. This is the general public tax paying folks who want this building saved, and and neither of the New York State, nor the DEC listened and once the environmentalist gotten involved, and that was the final nail in the coffin for debar Lodge. I’ve also attended town meetings at town of Duane when Ed lemieux was attempting to broker deal with the New York State to save the lodge that went nowhere also. So now New York State will tear the lodge down and put up platforms with picnic tables and outhouses, and maybe some tents and this is what we will be left with. There is one positive. I believe that they will finally open the gate and allow people to drive closer to the pond and park so that those with disabilities and elderly may be able to visualize the area without traversing over a mile . It’s a shame what’s happened here and the taxpayers will be paying for it.
Eleanor, I agree with you 100%. The environmentalists think that everything has to be wild. The best solution for this should have been to donate it to the veterans with the assurance they would keep the original buildings. They now have land just down the road that they are developing and could have used that land to do the same. I guess they forget that without the veterans they would have no say in what is wild and what is not but, I guess with their support of socialists, that may happen anyway.
Typical nonsense. When in doubt, always blame it on the Boogie Man du jour.
Or look at the facts.
Nobody goes there to gawk at a not very interesting rich guys cabin. They go there to canoe, swim, picnic, etc. The interests of the many who enjoy the property for what it is are being met with this plan, kudos to the state for protecting the interests of all its residents rather than tossing another bone to a select group of special interests.
How does the DEC have money and time for this but they still haven’t replaced the Mill Brook Bog Bridge that they tore out last September???
Debar Pond and lodge are hidden gems. Peaceful, beautiful and a glimpse of a bygone era, and a place I return to every time I come to the northcountry. I think it should be stabilizedj, hopefully so people with more vision than DEC can restore it in the future, or left to age in place (like I hope to do). I enjoy the rudimentary access, even carrying a canoe, but think the state should improve the road and open the gate to make it accessible to everyone.
The gate was open, people immediately ran trucks right to the shore, dropped huge ruts across the property and degrading the shoreline and the previously pristine nature of the property.
Unfortunately Steven many people agree with you but the powers that be again listened to environmentalists and opted for tear down.
The gate was open, people immediately ran trucks right to the shore, dropped huge ruts across the property and degrading the shoreline and the previously pristine nature of the property.
It’s time the state starts to preserve our old historical sights. I am so sick of such wasted spending when it comes to new york. I love the adks and it is so nice when you get to visit these wonderful places! If we want to go back to the way it was then why don’t we go back to day 1 before there was even trees, lakes or rivers. Let’s go back to the ice age!! Let’s preserve what we have before it’s to late! Let’s wake up!
There is nothing old, historic or interesting about the buildings. What is old, historic and interesting is the pond, the surrounding mountains and the primitive character of the backwaters. It is a wonderful place people get to visit and enjoy right now — this turn of events is a success story for the public to continue enjoying the ability to visit this wonderful place – the propagandists would wish us to believe the opposite.
Actually, I believe that the state historical people (Adirondack Architectural Heritage and the Preservation League), the “propagandists” as you call them (who does know what is historical) have weighed in here. What is propaganda, is when someone who does not know what is or isn’t historical weighs in. The building is on the historic register.
That’s true it is, unfortunately, the Adirondack Architectural Heritage and the Preservation League’s involvement with this affair has exposed them as a front for the camel’s nose beneath the tent given that “the designation is due to the site’s association with Adirondack tourism in the first half of the twentieth century” but the designation was used as the primary plank in the “let’s make it a private event center and eliminate public access to the developed, accessible section of the shoreline.” I know, I know, they promised that everyone will have access just like before. But I remember before, I remember when one “shared” the shoreline. I remember even after the lease expired the effort to pretend it was still private, shooing people away from publicly owned property. The thing is Paul, everyone has access right now. And this time, without any doubt people with various disabilities can make their way nearly to the water, but this whole affair has delayed hardening the surfaces all the way to the water and delayed creating some picnicking spots and other amenities to develop the resource and to attract ALL the people of the community. As for the historic nature, that area is chock full of all kinds historic infrastructure and activity — which interpretive signs and a kiosk will cover quite nicely.
Eleanor I also agree As for money to fix it up they could take it out of the money the governor set op I think it was $ 10 million.
Now I know why John Hendrickson didn’t want to sell to the state, They would do the same to it.
How destructive the State New York beurocacy can be! The buildings are already there, they are historic…… preserve them for posterity!!!!
Many roads on wild forest parcels are not being maintained per the debar mt. Ump as just one example. The idea is to just quietly let it all go. Ever try to go down the road that offers ‘access’ to the east branch of st. Regis river off the trim road in waverly? How about west branch access? It’s almost all gone.
This is great news! A public property land grab turned aside! Preserving this the property for the public to access and freely enjoy as they have for the past couple decades is a huge win for the local residents. There is nothing historic about wealthy people’s homes and there is no compelling public benefit to handing public property to private investors.
“Forever Wild”, the grandiose Albany bureaucratic and the environmental lobby plan. Conform to our religious doctrine or else.
This is typical NYS nonsense. They have destroyed so much history in this manner. It is a disgrace. All part of eliminating all signs of humanity from the Adirondack Park, as if humans are a disease that needs ro be eradicated. Money inro the pockets of the elite, destroy the presence of all others. So much history has already been destroyed. The EMPIRE state!
Interesting take. You seem confused. This a story about monied elites trying to take a really nice piece of property from the residents of New York, and specifically the residents of Franklin County, in exchange for a gravel pit. No history is being destroyed, but, just in case, I’ll preserve it here: Rich guy somehow swindles a 100 year lease for a property owned by the people of New York State. Lease expired. Special interests begin circling like vultures hoping to swindle the community into giving up its most important natural resource with a constitutional amendment and the trade of a worthless piece of played out wasteland. I.E. The people have so far successfully defended against an attempted land grab — and preserved their FREE access to the area. In other words, the exact opposite of your apparent take.
What? How can a project looking to preserve a local historical building by local historical society members be – “monied elites” taking anything?
How is the state preserving public access to a highly coveted piece of public property, “Money inro the pockets of the elite, destroy the presence of all others?”
Let’s compare:
1) transferring “historic” public property to a private vendor for “events” in exchange for played out wasteland.
2) Preserving FREE public access for ALL members of the community to “historic” public property whose history goes well beyond the cheaply constructed oversized cabin that is complete with modern day (cheap) fixtures, modern day concrete slab construction and a freaking hot tub. Mr. Distin was an artist, sure, St. John’s in the Wilderness is beautiful no doubt, but this ain’t that. It just isn’t.
In comparing the two, I’m thinking option 2 preserves the history and the intent of parklands more robustly than option 1. And for the record, it would be nice if the infrastructure/buildings could be preserved and used to enhance the public experience but unfortunately every single proposal seems to have been transfer to this or that group so they can make money as the primary goal and the buildings are now an obstacle to getting anything at all done.
Is some 1970s ski condo also “historic”? Tossing around the label, “historic” seems a wee stretch.
What is the best use of the site? What would be the maintenance costs of keeping the building(s?) from rotting into the soil? Would hosting events at the building interfere with the public’s access to the lake? Are there not existing facilities to meet the current and projected need for places to host events at the site?
Are there any materials good enough in this building for re-use.? Perhaps a careful teardown and recycling the materials would be a pourposeful future for the building… ?
(From total outsider who likes upstate NY)
Fascinating discussion!
I like the idea of removing the glass and letting nature rewild the site, but…. Safety? People would be tempted into it and then you have problems.
Preservation? Expensive and are ALL old historic buildings actually desirable?
In the UK recently, vandals recently felled the Sycamore Gap tree, and are in jail now.
The timber from it is being recycled into all sorts of things to remember an iconic tree and bring awareness to many.
A controlled dismantling of the building could salvage as much as possible to recycle into local projects, objects, facilities…. The remains could then be left in a safe condition, for nature to reclaim the site.
No, sadly I am not local, and I apologise if my comments from outside are not welcome.
Of COURSE your comments are welcome. Thanks for sharing!
I agree with Mr. Whitehouse:
“A controlled dismantling of the building could salvage as much as possible to recycle into local projects, objects, facilities.”
Why not donate it to an organization like the one in East Essex that is renovating older abandoned houses to provide new affordable housing.
That’s a really good idea! There is certainly enough material there to reuse for some picnic tables, maybe even an accessible lean to (it would be a great spot for that) but then, probably enough for multiple renovations.
I have paddled plenty of ADK ponds with no structures on the shoreline. When we paddled Debar we really liked seeing the one home and wondering who built it and their lives in the ADKs. We live in the park. We had no problem seeing the Debar home on the shoreline. That is part of history. Let’s face it-shoreline is shoreline. The home breaks the continuous shoreline scene. It is what we see in the distance that makes the view. A view of a well done looking home is a great view. This was not a white vinyl clad house on a lot of the crowded lakes but one that fits in well with the environment. Take the state money (our money as taxpayers) that would be spent in demolition and put into preservation. There is not going to be another Debar Lodge, let’s keep the one we have. The differences make the experience-not the same old same old.
At 88 years old, I’ve spent considerable time in the Adirondacks as has my dad who first ‘worked the logging industry back to the 1920’s………when the deer, bear. white rabbits, grouse and many birds were many and all ‘fat and healthy’ and the trout streams and ponds provided abundantly good fishing anytime one cared to do ‘whatever in season’………….the logging kept the ‘regrowth of berries, grasses and lower ‘bush type foods for all that lived there…….and the wildlife thrived !……then came the ‘Forever Wild’which took 40 plus years for all that to disappear with the forest taking over the lower level food chain that made the ‘wildlife thrive’ and today we have ‘more of the same’ with these same areas becoming ‘grown over’ with tall trees, ‘acid streams and ponds’, some barely supporting a tadpole……….and a deer having to be’ 12 feet tall’ ‘to get good browse to eat n the winter……………….before my dad died in 2001 at the age of 99, he stated in his lifetime he saw the ‘best of the Adirondacks and ‘the worst’…………….he said what was ‘Forever Wild’ became ‘Forever Wasted’…………..as NYS stood still for 100 years and watched it’s once great hunting and fishing quality deteriorate…………Well Rounded Good ,Forest, Water and Land Management ‘stood still’ as the ‘deer and wildlife in general ‘faded off as did the song birds and the fish diminished on a downward spiral to what the all are today……………some say that NYS is ‘financially propping up’ some Saranac/Placid hotels business’s as ‘what used to be a ‘World Destination’ for vacationers is now ‘begging for customers’. and running ‘specials’ year round to pay the bills……..an example similar to Ulster County where the movie ‘Dirty Dancing’ showed how busy and
booming’ the ‘Catskills’ were in the 50’s and 60’s and ‘look at it now…………tourism is virtually gone……………just the fact that ‘the tremendous growth of population over that past 60 years has ‘over-used’ the Lake George, Schroon Lake and other larger lakes as there convenience from southern NYS vacationers has few other places to go…………..at least for ‘on the water vacation retreats’ to ‘affordably enjoy………….as NYS has spent most of their time and money of growing an already ‘large Bueauracsy’ to ‘protect’ a ‘Forever Wild Area’ that fewer and fewer can enjoy and doing nothing to ‘create or improve’ lakes that the increased population would enjoy……………no doubt the World changes and NYS is no different, with ‘hydro-power’ being established in ‘many Countries’, they also create more ‘Water recreation facilities, good fishing, retaining water (wetlands) in the areas that need it and get ”free hydro-power to boot’ for the increased population and businesses that need it…………very for times that any Government can ‘make money, improve’ it’s economy and provide ‘bonus recreation for eventual payback’ than by creating ‘a large body of water………….Aye ?…………..NYS has to get off it’s ass and approach problems with ‘necessary, common sense improvements that ‘benefit everybody and not ‘just a few rich guys’ and ‘yes’……….that ‘place in the woods the DEC wants to ‘tear down’ should be leased to a person/group for a ‘Dollar’ and make it accessable to ‘tourism’ if it is not ‘toooooo far gone and ‘give for once ‘give something back to the people who can enjoy it or’utilize it for the human good as suggested…………….time NYS started ‘doing something positive rather than ‘saying no’…………………’can we talk’ ? ……………as there’s lots more to do………………..Amen.
Walter, times change and memories fade into our preconceptions.
I agree with Mr. Birman on wildlife during/after logging operations. A logger friend told me deer herds follow his logging operation in the winter eating the branch tips on the logging slash piles. I live in an area of the park that hasn’t seen logging recently. My neighbor had his 75 acres logged 2 winters ago. The deer leave my neck of the woods after the second good snow every winter. That winter the deer stayed in amongst the slash piles as evidenced by the numerous deer beds in the snow. Probably the same for other wildlife. Logging brings sunlight to the forest floor. Brush and new growth start up. Logging done correctly is good for the forest and inhabitants. Logging done correctly makes logging roads which are good trails if the loggers have in their contract to leave their skidder roads passable when they pull out. NYS should use logic instead of becoming hung up on the phrase “forever wild”. How many hikers have stumbled on an old logging road in the woods and wondered how and when and where it went? Same thing with a simple (Debar) lodge. How and when and who built it? Look up some history when you get home. I don’t think anybody goes home and looks up the history of Debar day use picnic area minus the historic lodge